Very accurate and deadly, The bullet travels at 1450 FPS. to a target, which ripples out as a shockwave through tissue as the bullet plows through the body, leaving a cavity in its wake. Everything I understand and everything I have read and looked into if persons really going to throw down its going to be less than 15 yards and closer, at that point and Im just being honest I dont even use my rear sights once I get within 10 yards of a silhouette Im just going off at the front sight Focus and thats it, I compensate for the offset not using the rear sights by dropping the front sight a couple inches lower to anticipate the recoil and it is very accurate. Enter https://www.police1.com/ and click OK. When the weather is colder and requires a jacket or coat, I carry my Glock 30s, extra mag for either. We do, however, have reliable information from labs with regard to how much tissue rounds destroy. Your shot placement will be perfect. .45 Actually killed to individual who I shot vs the others who all but one lived. are 9mm rounds substantially more accurate than their larger caliber brethren? We cannot recreate these or even reliably use the data. Im sure many hunters can attest to the expansion of rifle bullets recovered from their game. Do give the Walther PPS serious consideration. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); 2023 Concealed Carry Inc. All Rights Reserved. Because of the impracticality of training for headshots, this examination of handgun wounding relative to law enforcement use is focused upon torso wounds and the probable results. The germans used 9mm forever and they know their guns and war making. It is all in the throat (Leade) and where the bullet contacts the rifling. With bigger bullets, you will make bigger holes., What makes the .223 potentially deadlier than the .22 is its velocity. All righty then, I started with 38 caliber revolvers in the early 70s, 53 yrs later, since few people carry revolvers, capacity, I have bounced back and forth and keep ammo for both 9mm and 45. But are we supposed to believe the difference in air resistance between a 9mm and a .45ACP is that great? It can also destroy your aim, and the strongest bullet on earth is useless if it doesnt hit the bad guy coming at you. We argued more capacity modern rounds ect ect. Thats why were here right? Slow him down, double up, spin/alter his track-anything to allow you to get that second shot and the empty the clip. In the end of the nearly five-minute shootout, five FBI agents were wounded and twoJerry Dove and Benjamin Groganwere killed. I would challenge anyone to shoot a 9mm against my 45 and, I promise my 45 will be the 9mm all day everyday. Fire Rate: 1,000 rounds/minute. Poor light and unplanned obstacles are common in real-life self-defense scenarios. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position you can make a crowd of men. The tests resulted in the selection in 1989 of the 10mm bullet as the most effective and accurate round for FBI agents to carry. You prefer the .45 for stopping power? If a projectile has features that would cause it to expand upon impact, U.S. Army engineers Donald Carlucci and Sidney Jacobson explained in the textbook, Ballistics: Theory and Design of Guns and Ammunition. For those that think their their 45 is best, Ill shoot my 9mm and for those that think their 9mm is best, Ill shoot my 45. Both calibers have been proven to be effectively lethal.. Ive usually have to chase guys shot with 9mm. The 7.62 round is not as fast as the .223, the round fired by the AR-15 (Americas most popular semiautomatic rifle), but it, . This is important because of permanent cavitation: The greater amount of tissue that is destroyed, the greater chance of incapacitation, all other factors being equal. I know this is off topic. It is also logical to assume that when the larger round enters a major body organ, the negative impact upon that organ will be more significant. No matter what caliber you are carrying, just remember that one of the keys to shooting through auto glass (whether from within or outside the vehicle) is to shoot as much as possible through the same hole. 125 gr 9 mm PB fully jacketed bullet will generally penetrate both skins of a car door. Its hesitation that makes people miss. Semiautomatic rifles dont shoot the largest bullets on the market. He watched MARSOC during a multi-national special forces competition, MARSOC couldnt compete with the low capacity 1911. Ive shot both calibers at humans as a soldier and as a LEO and 9mm just doesnt get the same results as 45 in the same number of shots. There is also the very real factor of life-or-death, fight-or-flight stress. WebAs shown in Fig. So Marines are now trained to simply kill them. Talk to someone that has been shot with a 9mm FMJ round and ask them what it feels like and contrast that to someone that has been shot with a 45 ACP FMJ round. Shooting another person is only done with the intention to, at the very least, incapacitate the subject to protect the physical safety of others. What I find more often than not is, in cases of 9mm shootings, unless its a head-shot or perfectly placed shot to the sternum, victims rarely drop where theyre shot and are often found blocks away from where the original shooting took place police actually have to trace blood droppings back to their origin to find the initial crime scene. I believe you are in some way getting a kick back from someone, wanting to push the idea that the 9mm is more affective than the 45. Opinions all ! The original FBI testing of bullets conducted in the late 1980s involved testing the Winchester 147 grain subsonic hollow point 9mm round, the Remington 185 grain hollow point .45 round and a 10mm 180 grain hollow point round. The round should be able to penetrate the body sufficiently to damage internal organs, even from less-than-ideal angles. At The Trace, we examine what happens after bullets are sold, shot, and wound human beings. Thats my two cents for what its worth. As stated before, this article isnt intended to solve the stopping power debate, but only to discuss the issues it involves. But we generally would refer to them as cartridges or rounds as a bullet is just the projectile portion encased in a cartridge and loaded into the firearm. Cant get into why I know this but but Im retired from the Government. It scares the hell out of me to think I might have had to use a 9 mm. If you havent got JHP or ballistic tip bullets in the 9mm gun your in trouble. It's estimated that chronic kidney disease affects about one in seven American adults. Were investigating how it spends its money. In stark contrast, the vast majority of incidents involving .40 S&W and .45 ACP resulted in gunshot victims being DRT; they dropped and expired right where they were initially shot, even with imperfect shot placement. Thank you Rich if you need 15 rounds to put down the assailant youre in trouble already, I have not near the experience of some of the veterans in the service. Its probably just psychological, but real evidence that the .45 is more effective. After decades of witnessing the 45 vs 9 mm battle. I like my Colt GOV. A bigger hole is better than a smaller hole and more holes is better than one hole. I read this after selling my XD Tactical in .40 to a friend and then settled on .45 GAP. 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will only penetrate one side of a human skull. Tearing and rupturing is common in tissue surrounding the wound channel. The rest of the argument as far as damage goes, should be common sense. The sheriff convinced the county to issue all the deputies glock 9mms to standardize the weapons and ammunition within the department. 0.177" Lead air gun pellet requires a minimum of 300 ft/s velocity to penetrate fresh human skin. I usually only post on the Reloading and Springfield portions of this forum, but I feel it needs to be stated of course that all the well educated and sincere folks who have posted actual facts regarding calibers and flung mass "shapes" are simply trying to destroy the internet and forums like these. The National Rifle Association is one of the most powerful special interest groups in America. The best stopping power is a complex mix of many different factors, including how fast the round is traveling and what it does when it enters the attackers body. When the engagement really happens and it is very fluid you are going to point shoot. Either will get the job done for protection. Good article and very good to great comments. Very smart Chris ! knows the sound of a 9m they may say o well Ill chance it but a 40 cal. We put our money behind the 9mm round fired by an extremely well-trained marksman carrying a Glock 19, Mannweiler told Marine Corps Times. This post has been updated to include information released by the FBI regarding the weapon used in the shooting. Because head shots are rare and extremely difficult, and torso hits are likewise difficult and do not result in immediate incapacitation, choosing handgun bullets for officers is a critically important task. I Have hair and an angular face. You cannot make a man by standing a sheep on its hind legs. I have shot many different calibers. If Im in my own home in a self-defense scenario, at any distance, Im armed with a 12 gauge, and the whole pistol capacity and power debate is moot. 0.38" Special P, 158 gr non-expanding bullet will, unless it strikes a bone, pass straight through a human body. Most rounds fired do not hit anyone at all. But with my Kimber Colt 45 I hit first shot no problem and it left that watermellon in disaster. I just got a glock30SF and im thinking of adding her to the g27 for my CC permit. Why do I say that? It might be bigger, but bigger isnt always better. But the guy kept on coming. Because capacity equals TIME. A .45 ACP will encounter greater resistance than a 9mm, but it also carries more weight, albeit at a slower velocity. The damage was far too extensive. That is those of us that has and carries guns. In response to this, ammunition makers began to design Hollowpoint bullets which would expand in the air during flight. Tests show that while it travels at 1,154 feet per second at 500 yards, slower than the .223 at that distance, the AKs bullet can deliver 370 foot-pounds of force, more than the AR. Take it this way, someone shoots at you, you at them. Penetration of this length and the tissue, blood vessel and organ damage/destruction that follows is vital to circulatory collapse. The .45 knocked him on his ***. Involved in a shooting with my partner. If another prefers a 9mm let him use it. Circulatory collapse will result in significant deprivation of oxygen to the brain. In those 53 years, weve built a reputation as one of Texass most trusted firearms dealers, and we did it in a state where sellers of used guns are almost as common as oil wells and prime rib. F = MA is absolutely true as it applies to ballistics. Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for Self Defense and Body Damage, Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License, Best Self-Defense Caliber and Damage to the Human Body, Effectiveness of Bullet Wounds: How Gunshot Wounds Work, What Happens When You Get Shot: Damage to the Human Body. I can say with great certainty that many animals dont just simply fall over and die. We enjoy our 2nd amendment and want it protected and were prepared to give our life to defend our country. Just bless his little Prsident heart. Ive seen too many people want to hunt but do not have ability to take a animals life. Youll immediately learn the, Why didnt I squeeze the trigger when I had the shot? Do your thing, your responsible for your actions! Fire Rate: 850 rounds/minute. It has less recoil, is less expensive and its penetration apparently compares favorably with the larger-sized rounds. When all else fails, when the rounds fail to stop the bad guy, then you need time on your side. If I am just going to the range with my son, I prefer the .45. and have shot that enough also to hit well with it. Ask the Mafia. One of the techniques used by several mob hit men was to use a .22 caliber pistol placed in the soft spot behind and slightly belo If we had had 45acp in the hands of the FBI in most every one of these complete inept foul ups they would likely have never happened and the debate would only be Glock or 1911 45 acp. The comparisons that I have seen conducted under those conditions seem to be pretty equal. It makes a bigger hole. Q-Did the owners of their weapons replace recoil springs on a maintenance schedule? Having fired 45 ACP and 9mm at human targets the 9 took 3 sometimes 4 hits c.o.m. But its definitely not easy to carry concealed (especially in hot weather) and Im big guy. The saga will never end. They have to show the bean counters proof for the money to fund the switch of caliber. That will put anything down.But if it comes time to kill a man should there be any fun in it. Anything else is a simple failure to prepare. So the moral of the story, use what you like, justify it any way you can, and enjoy the shooting sports, its fun, but if your life is on the line, well just give me a 45 in a 1911 Please. If you carry, you owe it to everyone to be as proficient as possible. I carried a 1911 in Vietnam as well as a 12 ga. .45 stayed on the hip. 24 Round Magazine now only decreases reload time by 5% rather than 20% like before. Such as my Kimber and Walther and can never forget the CZ shadow 2. ACP cystic fluid caused growth retardation and an increased obesity index in mice, affected the expression of the Npy, Fgfr2, Rnpc3, Sst, and Pcsk1n genes that regulate growth and energy metabolism in hypothalamic neurons, and enhanced the cellular interaction of AgrpMc3r. Though the patient survived and only had a small wound, he suffered extensive contusions throughout his lungs. The 9mm leaves the muzzle on average at 1100 feet per second, NOT 1500. Richard, I guess I have little feminine hands as I prefer to carry my 9mm for self-defense and on duty. Many factors, including the moisture content, knot content, tree age and even the separation of the boards, can give rise to highly variable results. Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as knock-down power. The only thing that can knock a target down is physiological incapacitation or psychological stress. So many guns so little time! D.R. I still prefer the .45. Its all about follow up shots. Rounds were literally ranked on the basis of temporary cavity volume, with penetration and permanent cavity ignored. Penetration of 7" pine boards for various pistol calibres: Illustrative penetration capabilities of a 30-06 full -jacketed rifle bullet at a velocity of 2700 ft/s and at a range of 200 yd: 1" of armour plate 7" of gravel 4.5" of brick 4" of concrete 32" of oak wood 6.5" of dry sand 7" of moist sand 26" of loam 24" of clay 19" of loose earth 60" of 1" pine boards, Continue reading here: General wound ballistic concepts, FREE Military Tough 6-in-1 Tactical Survival Knife, Free 2nd Amendment Gun Rights Silver Coin, Green Beret Master Sergeant Home Security Checklist, Winning Plays Texted To Your Phone That Comes Directly From An Elite Team Of Sharps, Ballistics Theory Straight Line Muzzle To Target, Internal External and Terminal Ballistics, High Standard Pistols - Firearms identification, Drop In Auto Sear - AR15 to M16 Conversion. Copyright 2023 In one case study of a 24-year-old man struck in the chest by a .40-caliber hollow-point pistol round, doctors found organ damage outside the direct path of the bullet. No vest..and since it was my idea.I Shoot First! In fact you are 1000 rounds short. If you take it in the field and get it dirty, see how easily serviceable that weapon is then. For gun owners, this means that, when you fire a brutally powerful weapon, its going to shove you backwards as well as fly up. I am old school. Fair testing without the bias of budgets and the need to carry what every one else is carrying would be quite refreshing and lend more to the safety of the officer or soldier who may be fighting his or her life. If I were young I would consider a compact 45, but at 73. first handgun i ever fired was glock27 .40SW she was snappy at first but 16 years later and after shooting lots of .45 and 9, i am back to .40SW for HD purposes. Look at the Walter Scott shooting. Until someone actually compares a 9mm of comparable bullet weight and charge to a 45 acp of the same I will continue in my retirement to carry my tried and true 45acp with a third more bullet weight and very similar penetration even with biased testing of much different bullet weights and charges. For those not in the military, go for what you want. And since the FBI was the agency who failed in the first place well, why follow thier blind lead? As long as YOU are comfortable with the choice, then Im happy for you! If you need to kill someone with a single shot, a rifle is what you need, not a handgun.. there again I drive a 502 Gasser for pleasure. Every round has its purpose. I know I prefer .45ACP. Interesting. If the first bullet ricochets off the windshield, the succeeding rounds will make it through. Well, depends on whom you ask. For me, that is the Sig p226 9mm. I believe the 45 ACP would scare many and they would rarely shoot to their capability. WebThe 45 will but them down and bleed them out real quick with a gut shot, the 9mm will have them flopping around and may not stop them from firing back, also from the pools of blood near the bodies the 45 does more damage. We were allowed to carry bone stock ( night sights ok. weapon purchased at our own expense ) Smith and Glock 21s ( It was the 2nd Gen Glock era. Now thats hilarious. And I am surprised that this was not mentioned. The paramedics said he probably would not live. I think it is more the exception than the rule. WebCapitola Mansion Apartments, Off Grid Cabin Canada, Seth Smith Actor Age, Parma High School Football Schedule, Roxiticus Country Club Membership Fees, Jquery Time Slot Booking Calendar, 45 Acp Damage Human Body, Maricopa News Shooting, Tws I12 Keeps Powering Off, Long Term Rentals Camber Sands,
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